Jake Armitage and Harlequin.... Snes and Genesis tie-in mission discussion.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Alrighty Chummers... Thought I'd start a thread discussing the Snes and Genesis tie in mision planned for Shadowrun Returns.

    Lets discuss how you think they may link the plots between the upcoming game, canon and console titles.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    WARNING POSSIBLE SPOILERS FROM THE SNES AND GENESIS TITLES!!!

    My guesses which are a little left of field would link Jake and Harlequin up around the year 0f 2055-57 which seems the most plausible time for Shadowrun returns to take place.

    I beleive they may link them involving the Jester spirit subplot in the Snes title.

    Much like the main plot of the genesis title which involved Renraku and the free spirit "Thon" which was trying to harness power to manifest as a physical being by using artifacts.
    And Renraku(a megacorp) trying to manipulate Thon for its own purposes.
    The Jester spirit like Thon (both free spirits) could be trying to do a similar thing or its mask could link to an artifact in the Thon/Genesis storyline that Thon was after to help it manifest in the real world.

    Another guess is Harlequin (who is magically adept and immortal) may use Jake to find out the true name of the Jester(laughlin) spirit and harness its power(interesting to note that the jester spirit shares similar traits to Harlequin in looks and attitude) and maybe use it in combating the "Horrors" of the tabletop canon.

    Well, a couple of ideas so far what do you guy's think may happen?

  • Starchaser (Member)

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    I really think that the spirits idea has some merit. I'll have to replay the Genesis version, it's been a while since I played it, and details are a little blurred.
    One of the best points of the Snes version (for me, at least) was Dog, and Jake being a shaman (for argument's sake, since it didn't make much sense that he was a decker and a shaman, but I suposse they tried to blend together the samurai/decker/shaman classes).
    By the way, a Jester and a Commedia dell'arte Harlequin are not so different. So, who knows? (probably the devs...).
    And also, Drake :wink:

  • Witchzero

    Witchzero (Member)

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    I think it will depend on when in the timeline they decide to put the mission. It could tie in during the events of the SNES and Genesis games. You could be working Joshua's or Jake's story from a different angle or even be working for another faction trying to play into the events.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Yeah Starchaser the whole Drake thing has me thinking as well.

    Just like in the tabletop game when Dunkelzahn died and created a astral rift maybe the same thing happened after drake was killed and Harlequin and Jake with Dunkelzahns help have to close it.

    From what I know from canon Dunkelzahn dies(murdered/suicide?) in 2057 but in the dragonheart saga novels comes back as a free spirit named Lethe then later merges with a cyberzombie(awesome and crazy at the same time). it seems he stays on the astral to protect the world from the Horrors. He and Harlequin know each other quite well.

    Maybe Drake is now a free spirit and is aiding the Horrrors in crossing from the metaplane into the physical world and they have to stop him before it's too late.

    On a side note I pretty sure the Snes title occured in 2050 while the genesis title happened in 2058...

  • Blade Runner

    Blade Runner (Member)

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    The SNES Shadowrun game took place in 2050 and the Genesis Shadowrun game took place in 2058. So, this connection could take place in the early 2050s without even bringing in the 2058 storyline of Joshua & Michael from the Genesis Shadowrun game. Remember it is implied that that Drake was defeated (not killed) at the end of the SNES Shadowrun game, so I could definitely see HBS bringing Jake and Harlequin together to take on another machination of Drake (perhaps also bringing in the Jester spirit).

    To be honest, I hope HBS is designing Shadowrun Returns with the long-term plan that SR:R will become the first in a series of games that develops from the early 2050s and into the late 2060s. I would hate for this game to quickly sweep through the rich storyline of the 2050s for the sake of cramming all the great events into one game. I really hope that HBS begins the game around 2051 (before insect shamans overwhelm Chicago) and slowly explores the decade through a series of DLC or at least 1 (maybe 2) sequels.

  • Mr Johnson

    Mr Johnson (Member)

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    To be honest, I hope HBS is designing Shadowrun Returns with the long-term plan that SR:R will become the first in a series of games that develops from the early 2050s and into the late 2060s.I would hate for this game to quickly sweep through the rich storyline of the 2050s for the sake of cramming all the great events into one game.I really hope that HBS begins the game around 2051 (before insect shamans overwhelm Chicago) and slowly explores the decade through a series of DLC or at least 1 (maybe 2) sequels.


    This. A constant flow of updates through DLC is a great idea, whether just for equipment or character additions, or full-on story arc additions and year-leaps. I give this two thumbs up.

  • Shinxy

    Shinxy (Member)

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    I was thinking actually that the game would be set before the events of the Shadowrun SNES game (which definitely aren't canonical in any case) and Jake would just be a plain old Dog shaman that you could hire... after all, apparently he got the datajack and head computer fitted especially to act as courier for the anti-AI program, then got amnesia and all. I'd like to know what he was doing before all that.

  • Kage1

    Kage1 (Member)

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    I don't see them including Jake or Harlequin as team mates simply because they work best as "johnsons" story wise. However, I don't know how exactly they plan on linking the three, but they're definitely going with 50's, so whatever they do, it has to be after the events of the SNES and either before, during, or immediately after the Genesis title, otherwise they will be moving into the 60's.

  • Kanadyets

    Kanadyets (Member)

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    Quote from Shinxy:
    I was thinking actually that the game would be set before the events of the Shadowrun SNES game (which definitely aren’t canonical in any case) and Jake would just be a plain old Dog shaman that you could hire… after all, apparently he got the datajack and head computer fitted especially to act as courier for the anti-AI program, then got amnesia and all.I’d like to know what he was doing before all that.





    I think this can work. After all, once you get him talking, Dog does tell you that in truth you are a Shaman.

  • Blade Runner

    Blade Runner (Member)

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    How cool would it be to have Joshua and/or Michael from the Genesis Shadowrun game as NPCs you can hire?

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Kage: I don’t see them including Jake or Harlequin as team mates simply because they work best as “johnsons” story wise. However, I don’t know how exactly they plan on linking the three, but they’re definitely going with 50′s, so whatever they do, it has to be after the events of the SNES and either before, during, or immediately after the Genesis title, otherwise they will be moving into the 60′s.


    I suppose the tie-in mission will be more of a "endgame run" so to speak once your player character is uber-strong with a big rep. Seeing as Harlequin and Jake are powerful and well known.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Blade Runner: How cool would it be to have Joshua and/or Michael from the Genesis Shadowrun game as NPCs you can hire?


    I think it's plausible for Michael to appear, even if certain characters are not included I'm sure the community will use the character editor to do just that lol

  • pariahpaladin

    pariahpaladin (Member)

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    My own pet theory about the Jester spirit is that it was a former ally spirit of Harlequin that went free. Hence the similar personality and appearance. Depending on how they parted ways there could be a grudge or favors owed...

  • Starchaser (Member)

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    Or maybe not allies, I think of them more as two dogs fighting for the same bone.



    Quote from pariahpaladin:
    My own pet theory about the Jester spirit is that it was a former ally spirit of Harlequin that went free.Hence the similar personality and appearance.Depending on how they parted ways there could be a grudge or favors owed…


  • Caimbul

    Caimbul (Member)

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    Quote from Blade Runner:
    To be honest, I hope HBS is designing Shadowrun Returns with the long-term plan that SR:R will become the first in a series of games that develops from the early 2050s and into the late 2060s.I would hate for this game to quickly sweep through the rich storyline of the 2050s for the sake of cramming all the great events into one game.I really hope that HBS begins the game around 2051 (before insect shamans overwhelm Chicago) and slowly explores the decade through a series of DLC or at least 1 (maybe 2) sequels.

    I concur! (Really nothing more to say but hell yeah!)

  • Drace (Member)

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    Honestly, I would love to see a tie in with Michael before his fate from the Gen game. Perhaps have Michael, Stark or David be NPCs or even cameo characters. Even small, barely important to the games plot kinda things would be a nice sort of tie in. Things like news stories and the like detailing events from the Snes Game or previous back story to the Gen game would be nice, useless but entertaining fluff.

    On the same note, I wonder if there will be any allusions to the shadowtalk from the early sourcebooks?

  • Arminius

    Arminius (Member)

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    Honestly I'd like Joshua from the Genesis to be involved, but for that the mission would need to be set in the late 60s and I don't think that's the direction the game is going. Maybe veteran Jake could meet Joshua just after sealing Thon, and Harlequin would give them a brand new mission.

  • Cielmer

    Cielmer (Member)

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    Keep in mind as well that Jake may have been a Shaman, but their are references to the game where "Hey, when did you get that Datajack installed?" which leads me to believe that this is the only tech that Jake had. I remember (correct me if I am wrong) that if someone like Jake were to install other augments into him then he would lose more and more essence. If I remember correctly, a Data Jack is just the icing of that metahuman cake. Which would also explain Jakes powers still being highly atuned to Dog.

    That was my theory from the time I learned beyond the SNES game. I'm using references from the Genesis game and some novels too...

  • RunnerPaul

    RunnerPaul (Member)

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    Quote from Cielmer:
    Keep in mind as well that Jake may have been a Shaman, but their are references to the game where “Hey, when did you get that Datajack installed?” which leads me to believe that this is the only tech that Jake had.


    The SNES game pretty much ignored the essence loss == magic loss mechanic in order to implement three major character types into the single player character. By the end of the game, Jake was a Street Shamadeckeruai, with powers/skills/implants comparable to a veteran of any of those three single archetypes from the tabletop game. Galling to some of the purists, but a useful shortcut to highlight multiple aspects of the setting while keeping development complexity down.

    On an unrelated note, I hope that some of the NPCs from the SNES and the Genesis games get incorporated into this mission as well. I'd love to see Kitsune the unoriginally-named fox shapeshifter make an appearance again.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from RunnerPaul: On an unrelated note, I hope that some of the NPCs from the SNES and the Genesis games get incorporated into this mission as well. I’d love to see Kitsune the unoriginally-named fox shapeshifter make an appearance again.


    Haha yeah and bring back Hamfist and Dances with clams as well..

  • Starchaser (Member)

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    And strobes!

  • Jake Armitage

    Jake Armitage (Member)

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    Yes! The strobes are a MUST against vampire slaying (as hilarious as that sounds lol). I would love to see Hamfist, Anders and Norbert appear in the new games. Also, it would be funny to see that old street doc that first found the Cortex Bomb in Jake's head

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Jake Armitage: Also, it would be funny to see that old street doc that first found the Cortex Bomb in Jake’s head


    I thought everyone blew him away? (I sure did everytime i've played it, let him live once I think. Finished it probably 8-10 times since the 90's hahaha) Cant remember if he sells you stuff after you have it diffused by the other doc.

  • Kanadyets

    Kanadyets (Member)

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    Quote from Jake Armitage:
    Yes! The strobes are a MUST against vampire slaying (as hilarious as that sounds lol). I would love to see Hamfist, Anders and Norbert appear in the new games. Also, it would be funny to see that old street doc that first found the Cortex Bomb in Jake’s head


    I usually shot that guy when he was finished with me.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Kanadyets: I usually shot that guy when he was finished with me.


    case in point lol

  • Starchaser (Member)

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    You are a very mean bunch. Shooting the poor guy? Never crossed my mind! And I'd really like see him again. With a cortex. In HIS head this time ;)

  • Lark

    Lark (Member)

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    Never thought about killing the poor bastard. Loved how the game had the option. Like Starchasers idea of seeing the role reversed. Love the Jester/Harlequin spirit connections.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    I hope HBS didnt have that plot idea already 8-O if so i'm sorry lol.

    I wonder how many people tried shooting at least one or more of the random bench sitting businessmen as well until they lost Karma?

  • Zeithri

    Zeithri (Member)

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    Jake was essentially a GOD character by the end of Snes Shadowrun.
    I don't believe Jake was a shaman prior to his amnesia but rather occured sometime around his "death", as H'oochin-ikwa choose Jake to become a follower of DOG. Basically, one way of looking at it is that Ikwa used Jake while the more natural flowing way of looking at it is that the Dog-spirit is good. The way you actually can look at it is that Jake was reborn through his death.

    I never really played through the Genesis version so I can't say much about it other than I usually got stuck just doing missions rather than continuing the storyline :P

    One thing is certain, the following characters need to make an apperance;
    * Kitsune - Duh.
    * Maria Mercurial - We need that song back!
    * Drake - The Dragon

    Personally, I'd love to see Akumi the asian mage make an apperance as well.
    I am also curious if we'll get to see Delay again.

  • Starchaser (Member)

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    I think that Jake Armitage, al least some parts of his story, is somewhat based on Sam Verner from the Secrets of Power trilogy: being a Dog shaman and Drake as an antagonist.
    I don´t see Armitage being a shaman before, either, because I don´t think a true shaman would get a datajack implant, for whatever reasons, and least of all to be a courier.



    Quote from Zeithri:
    Jake was essentially a GOD character by the end of Snes Shadowrun.
    I don’t believe Jake was a shaman prior to his amnesia but rather occured sometime around his “death”, as H’oochin-ikwa choose Jake to become a follower of DOG. Basically, one way of looking at it is that Ikwa used Jake while the more natural flowing way of looking at it is that the Dog-spirit is good. The way you actually can look at it is that Jake was reborn through his death.


    I never really played through the Genesis version so I can’t say much about it other than I usually got stuck just doing missions rather than continuing the storyline


    One thing is certain, the following characters need to make an apperance;
    * Kitsune – Duh.
    * Maria Mercurial – We need that song back!
    * Drake – The Dragon


    Personally, I’d love to see Akumi the asian mage make an apperance as well.
    I am also curious if we’ll get to see Delay again.


  • Canadian Shaman

    Canadian Shaman (Member)

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    I hope they at least put in some remixed music tracks from the original games.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Starchaser: I don´t see Armitage being a shaman before, either, because I don´t think a true shaman would get a datajack implant, for whatever reasons, and least of all to be a courier.


    Jake found his calling after his brush with death, I think it may of had something to do with Kitsune's spell that kept him hanging on long enough as she is a dog shapeshifter as well.
    He must have been a courier/decker, although he had amnesia as soon as he got that cyberdeck and was fixed up he was an apt hacker. He was not a sam as you had to purchase the cyber later in the game I just wonder what HBS will do with his everyman skillset if he is a player character in Shadowrun:Returns.

    And hopefully we get a little more of Jake's backstory in the tie-in mission.

  • Berenstain

    Berenstain (Member)

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    For the SNES section of the SNES/Genesis mission tie-in, I really hope we get more details or a resolution to the Jake/Drake and Jake/Kitsune relationships. For those who don't know what I'm talking about, *minor spoiler* Drake is the primary antagonist of SNES Shadowrun and says he'll be back for Jake in Shadowrun II. And *MAJOR spoilers* Kitsune was a unique shadowrunner in that she was the one to revive Jake from certain death at the beginning of the game. She also clearly likes him and if you finish the Dog Spirit's initial quest with her, she says she doesn't want to "let him out of her sight" (staying permanently with Jake for free). And if you keep Kitsune with you for the rest of the game, she is the only shadowrunner to survive and leaves with Jake. So what happened after? Been wondering that for around 20 years now, haha.

    Some of you may remember that I've mentioned this already in the Kickstarter comments thread, but I wanted to be sure to repeat it here on the official forums as well.

  • tajlund (Member)

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    Quote from Blade Runner:
    The SNES Shadowrun game took place in 2050 and the Genesis Shadowrun game took place in 2058.So, this connection could take place in the early 2050s without even bringing in the 2058 storyline of Joshua & Michael from the Genesis Shadowrun game.Remember it is implied that that Drake was defeated (not killed) at the end of the SNES Shadowrun game, so I could definitely see HBS bringing Jake and Harlequin together to take on another machination of Drake (perhaps also bringing in the Jester spirit).


    To be honest, I hope HBS is designing Shadowrun Returns with the long-term plan that SR:R will become the first in a series of games that develops from the early 2050s and into the late 2060s.I would hate for this game to quickly sweep through the rich storyline of the 2050s for the sake of cramming all the great events into one game.I really hope that HBS begins the game around 2051 (before insect shamans overwhelm Chicago) and slowly explores the decade through a series of DLC or at least 1 (maybe 2) sequels.



    Yes, and again yes. Please. That would be amazing to be playing the game through all of the major events in SR history

  • tajlund (Member)

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    It's strange. I love the Genesis version completely. But, thinking back mainly I remember ghoul bounties and killing Halloweeners. I don't remember much about the plot except a holy crap moment with a dragon near the end.

  • SavijMuhdrox

    SavijMuhdrox (Member)

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    I have finally got an emulator on my Droid phone and my first Genesis game to be acquired was Shadowrun. It's kinda weird to be playing thru the game again.. somethings are so familiar, and some are new all over again.

    Kinda like the first place you get your runs from.. the Jump House.. and that bizarre voice-over on the bar's music.. "Shut En Lauf!" or at least thats what i think it sounds like.

    I'm really hoping that this game captures some of the feel of these two games (the spontaneity, the sound and some of the characters) while being its entirely own thing..

  • DrewDAMNIT

    DrewDAMNIT (Member)

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    It would be really awesome to be able to hire Armitage as a runner in our team, but I'd settle for Hamfist, Anders, Norbert, and Kitsune.

  • welcometothefold

    welcometothefold (Member)

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    Quote from Starchaser: I think that Jake Armitage, al least some parts of his story, is somewhat based on Sam Verner from the Secrets of Power trilogy: being a Dog shaman and Drake as an antagonist.


    Yeah I've heard that also, I think beam software must of read through and adapted it loosely for the game.

  • Furuigo (Member)

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    Quote from RunnerPaul: Galling to some of the purists, but a useful shortcut to highlight multiple aspects of the setting while keeping development complexity down.


    Well to be fair they kinda had to shoehorn all that in given how the size of the memory. I mean the Genesis version had double that.
    While Joshua was less memorable then Jake because of the comparative lack of scripted events, seen especially the very redundant character models, I can't help but think this could be fixed. If the code for the Genesis version is still around I would love to see the team take the Genesis version and just put it on the Sega CD. Just having all that memory that could give space for extra character models and cutscenes, etc. would then put it leaps and bounds above the SNES version as the preferred version. Those were the main draws against it I think though I suppose one could argue the office buildings could be touched up a bit as well.

  • babaganoosh13

    babaganoosh13 (Member)

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    I wonder if you were to walk into the morgue with Jake with his glasses off, would the coroners still run away?

  • Mellefleur

    Mellefleur (Member)

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    Quote from welcometothefold:

    Quote from Kage: I don’t see them including Jake or Harlequin as team mates simply because they work best as “johnsons” story wise. However, I don’t know how exactly they plan on linking the three, but they’re definitely going with 50′s, so whatever they do, it has to be after the events of the SNES and either before, during, or immediately after the Genesis title, otherwise they will be moving into the 60′s.

    I suppose the tie-in mission will be more of a "endgame run" so to speak once your player character is uber-strong with a big rep. Seeing as Harlequin and Jake are powerful and well known.

    Spoiler alert

    Just FYI, you can estimate just how powerful Har' le' a' Qwinn is by doing a little research from Earthdawn. Same for "Jester" and Mount... Er, the Big D :)

  • Michael Chandra

    Michael Chandra (Moderator)

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    If you want an idea on how powerful Harlequin is, he went mano-a-mano with Ghostwalker in 2074. Got his ass kicked, but he still was strong enough to pack a good punch. If it had been a lesser dragon, he'd have won with ease.

  • weissel (Member)

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    Quote from SavijMuhdrox:

    Kinda like the first place you get your runs from.. the Jump House.. and that bizarre voice-over on the bar's music.. "Shut En Lauf!" or at least thats what i think it sounds like.

    It's "Schattenlauf" (German, literally "Shadow-Run").

  • DaveyD

    DaveyD (Member)

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    Quote from weissel:

    Quote from SavijMuhdrox:

    Kinda like the first place you get your runs from.. the Jump House.. and that bizarre voice-over on the bar's music.. "Shut En Lauf!" or at least thats what i think it sounds like.

    It's "Schattenlauf" (German, literally "Shadow-Run").

    And here I always thought it was "Shut yer mouth!" :\">

  • K1llFactor

    K1llFactor (Member)

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    Quote from welcometothefold:

    Quote from Starchaser: I think that Jake Armitage, al least some parts of his story, is somewhat based on Sam Verner from the Secrets of Power trilogy: being a Dog shaman and Drake as an antagonist.

    Yeah I've heard that also, I think beam software must of read through and adapted it loosely for the game.

    I was wondering about this because I played the SNES game first and only recently started reading the novels and was noticing all the connections. I was trying to figure out if they were two different stories around the same events or just material that the game used from the books. I think its the latter cause some things don't connect right and wouldn't make sense if both stories happened around the same time.

  • Falci (Member)

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    Rise from your Grave!

    A little bit of thread necromancing, if you guys don't mind. ;)

    So, I played through the game... which one was the tie-in mission? Or it isn't in Dead Man's Switch? Should we expect it into Dragonfall? Or later in another campaign?

  • Michael Chandra

    Michael Chandra (Moderator)

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    There wasn't really a tie-in mission for Jake, you just had him along for the ride a few times. And with Harlequinn, it's definitely the last one.

  • Falci (Member)

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    Oh, I was under that impression about Jake, I just hadn't figured out that Harlequinn was the Genesis Tie-in character, since I barely played the console games.

    Anyway, thanks for the answer. :)

  • Michael Chandra

    Michael Chandra (Moderator)

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    The problem with the Genesis game is that it takes place several years after SRR, so most of its characters can't be easily referenced.