Minimum Karma to be Initiated?

  • Dromin

    Dromin (Member)

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    I'm going to take a stab at converting the book, 'Who Hunts the Hunter'. Bandit was a powerful initiated shaman in the story, and his opponents were similarly powerful. Since I want to stick as close to the happenings of the book as I can I needed to find a Karma amount that'd be appropriate for the runner if someone created a new one specifically for the adventure.

    My question is: What is the minimum Karma it'd take for someone to be an initiate? Once I know that then I can decide with some amount of accuracy what Karma amount to award new players so they can build their character - regardless of the Archtype.

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ahead of time.

  • Traxx Steiner

    Traxx Steiner (Moderator)

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    We stiil don't know how the new edition will chnage matters regarding initiation costs, but base your calculations on the existing formulas:

    -Initiation base cost: 10 + (Grade x 3)

    -Group initiation: Base cost x 0.8 (round up)* -Initiatory ordeal: Base cost x 0.8 (round up)*

    -These may be combined for a net initiation cost of Base cost x 0.6 (round up)

    So your wolf shaman would have to pay 10 + (1 x 3) = 13 Karma points initiating alone and without any ordeal, and 10 + (1 x 3) x 0.6 = 7.8 rounded up to 8 Karma points initiating within his magical group going throug one of the ordeals.

    regards TraXX

  • Johnny_Memphis

    Johnny_Memphis (Member)

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    Mitch has mentioned that there will be no initiation mechanics in the Seattle campaign.

    But I think you could simulate it through triggers in the game however. For example, using a dialogue option called "Masking" that would make the speaker believe you were mundane instead of magical.

    As far as Karma is concerned related to the PnP, it's like apples to orange. The Karma cost for skills and attributes are basically equal to the level you are trying to step up to. 2 costs 2, 3 costs 3, etc. All powers/spells are purchased from merchants. No karma cost associated with learning them.

  • Dromin

    Dromin (Member)

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    Thanks to both of you. I realize there's no actual initiation mechanic so far in the game. I'm merely looking for a ballpark figure to use for starting Karma for this adventure.

    Should Bandit's charisma be really high? Shaman and all that jazz. Seems to me in order to be an initiate first you'd have to master what you can without initiation. The reason I ask, again, is for the Karma estimation. Essentially I'm trying to figure out how much Karma went into making Bandit. Then use that to base my adventure starting Karma total.

    Thanks again for the input. This is helping.

  • opifer

    opifer (Member)

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    You can give negative Karma. So you could have the PC pay a certain number of Karma points to gain the "Initiated" story variable (or quest item) ...

  • SpenReyn

    SpenReyn (Member)

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    He's looking for a number guys, not a way to script something. Starting Karma points for him to design the main character off of. Since I don't have the editor I can't try to make Bandit and see what the totals are, but that's what he's wanting right now.

  • Dromin

    Dromin (Member)

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    Correct @spenreyn. I may just try 100 karma, see how that works and what totals I end up with. If that's too low I'll bump up to 150, etc.

  • opifer

    opifer (Member)

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    I have an Arena for blood sports in the Caryards area with 10 rounds, each against harder opponents.

    Right now, I give 1 Karma per round for the first 4 rounds, then 2 Karma per round for 5-8, and 3 Karma each for rounds 9 and 10.

    Does that seem about right to you guys?

  • Das Kindt (Member)

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    Quote from opifer:

    I have an Arena for blood sports in the Caryards area with 10 rounds, each against harder opponents.

    Right now, I give 1 Karma per round for the first 4 rounds, then 2 Karma per round for 5-8, and 3 Karma each for rounds 9 and 10.

    Does that seem about right to you guys?

    If your intent is to have your module part of a long campaign where players can develop a Runner and move them from campaign to campaign, for example from month to month in the Shadowrun Identity project, I would say your Karma rewards overall are extremely excessive.

    10 rounds would net 18 Karma. That's a lot of Karma by itself, not to mention all the other Karma the Runner is earning.

  • opifer

    opifer (Member)

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    Maybe just a consistent 1 Karma per round then. Keep in mind I am also drastically reducing Karma earned from killing enemies as I implement the persistent lootable bodies mechanic. My present intention to have a flat 5% chance of 1 Karma awarded that triggers on a kill by someone on team Shadowrunners. So that will be 1 Karma per 20 kills on average and you won't be able to farm certain "high Karma" enemies. I could play with the percentage chance (up or down) for game balancing later once I have more play testers.

    How much Karma should recommended starting PCs have? 55, 65, 75?

  • Dromin

    Dromin (Member)

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    I think playing through the official campaign and seeing how the Karma totals stack up in it will be helpful in determining that @Opifer. I plan to play the game a couple times through before starting to build. Just to get an idea of Karma amounts, rewards given, etc.

  • opifer

    opifer (Member)

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    Yup. Definitely. I get conflicting reports (too hard/too easy) about Life on a Limb, so playing the main game will help provide milestones.